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I think LLMs are pretty clearly intelligent in some sense of the word, and I don't know how one could ever confidently know they aren't conscious in some sense.

That's not to say they're humanlike, just that people who think they know these ideas are ridiculous seem to be overreaching in the same way Steve Yegge seems to be overreaching



What do you mean by consciousness here? Ie in what way do you think LLMs are conscious?


> conscious

The problem with that term is that it is hardly meaningful. Why would you use it? It does not add much, and no clarity, to what it is attributed to.


I think that "conscious" has a clear meaning in a sense that "xyphucymmon" does not. I think it might be impossible to engage in epistemology of consciousness (i.e. we can't find out of LLMs are conscious) but that doesn't make the term meaningless


> I think that... has a clear meaning

YawningAngel, of course you do, you employed it... We are telling you that it is not clear to the rest. It is slippery in the technical framework and thus even more so in more informal conversation.


And on the flip side if it hardly means anything why would you be so concerned when it’s uttered? Just ignore it


> why would you be so concerned when it’s uttered

When I am told "beware of the xyphucymmon", I do beware, though not of the xyphucymmon.


And this means nothing, yet I’m not complaining endlessly about it on social media, or harassing my coworkers about it. Curious


My post «When I am told "beware of the xyphucymmon", I do beware, though not of the xyphucymmon» had meaning, which should be pretty clear. The reply remains: debate is not performance art in which you convey "through the medium of dance and howls". So, yes, communication has obligations for the locutor.

So, yes, imperfect speech is a problem - because societies are not performance art arenas.

--

@Razengan: speaking as myself a vocal critic of the downvoting system here, do notice that the post you replied to had a substantive reply at the time of downvote - mine. That is sufficent to justify the downvote - of a post that was not «perfectly fine». It somehow said that people should be free to say whatever they want and there are obvious reasons why we do not agree.


I mostly agree with your original point. Is it thinking? Is it intelligent? Is it conscious? From my perspective, overloaded words that we’ve reserved to make ourselves feel more special and above other members of the animal kingdom.

But you’ve not adequately communicated why you care so much whether anyone labels an LLM as such.


> Is it thinking? Is it intelligent? Is it conscious?

Very different things. "Thinking": "Dijkstra". We try to hire more intelligent people, while we do not have a clear idea on a property of "conscious" which would make hiring preferable.

> to make ourselves feel

Irrational.

> above other members of the animal kingdom

Irrational.

> why you care so much

There should be no hint that I would do specifically.

> whether anyone labels an LLM as such

If anyone labels an LLM <whatever>, the point of why would that be important should be clear.

And,

> if it hardly means anything why would you be so concerned when it’s uttered? Just ignore it

Because the behaviour you suggest, consistent with the exchanges in an opium parlor, is not behaviour consistent in normal contexts.




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