This is awesome but I still find it funny that he said he wants a healthy relationship with technology then goes and fits his entire house out with technology. It doesnt seem like any of this would really be useful as you'd have to enter all the useful data manually(calendar).
For example the washing machine. You dont need real time information because you know how long it takes since you've done it 1000s of times and it beeps. All these things are just managed in our heads subconsciously.
> For example the washing machine. You dont need real time information because you know how long it takes since you've done it 1000s of times and it beeps.
It beeps, on the other end of the house (or on another floor), where it's inaudible. (And, thankfully, where the loud sounds of it operating are also inaudible.)
> All these things are just managed in our heads subconsciously.
And when you remove the need to track that in your head, your head gets freed up for other things.
To be explicit, I don't like "smart appliances" that connect to a cloud server. I do like the idea of devices that can connect locally to something like Home Assistant.
I'll just add this tip for those who struggle with this sort of thing.
I leave the empty basket in front of the machine, which for me happens to be somewhere where I'll pass by frequently until I need to take it out. That keeps it 'in sight, in mind'. Heck you could even put it in the kitchen to remind you.
I don't like the extra complexity that often comes with digital solutions, but I do like having a system. The simpler and less thought required, the better.
I do this for a number of different things. Rather than put it on a list I put it somewhere where it's in the way.
But this then means I have to have something on the floor in the way, which I also have to remember to do, and it doesn’t tell me anything about how long is left.
That requires more thought and clutter than just having the information when it’s relevant.
My pro tip is one of my girlfriends scrunchies stolen and put on my wrist - annoys me intermittently and therefore repeatedly reminds me to check the laundry.
You know, sometimes it doesn’t and sometimes it does. And also I’ve been known to forget it overnight and wake up to moldy clothes.
I have a friend who will say things like “I have to go at 3” and get up at 3 on the dot without even looking at her watch/phone. I’m not that guy and I need buzzers, timers, and ambient displays all working together anything done at a time.
OT but if your washing gets mouldy after being left in the washing machine overnight, you need to clean your washing machine (and/or use more detergent).
A bit OT but you may want a side loader. It's obviously not ideal to leave it overnight but the few times that's happened to me there isn't any mold. I'm guessing you have a top loader, it may not have been cleaned in a long time, and that it's in a basement that's prone to mold also.
For me it's not the washing machine, it's the dryer. The time remaining reported by the dryer when you start the cycle has almost no relation to how long it will actually take. Sometimes I go down to the basement after an hour (the dryer says 45m when you start it), and it still says 30m remaining. It's not the end of the world of course, but it is annoying, and it's the sort of annoyance technology can solve pretty easily.
I got a 4-pack of zigbee power plugs that report usage, and I have a home assistant automation that goes ding (or whatever) when the washer or dryer had been using electricity for at least a few minutes and then stops using electricity.
On all settings except timer, my dryer is pretty much useless. I set it to dry my bedsheets and towels with bulky item preset, max dry (who chooses minimum dry for anything?) and it'll say it'll take 1h30m, ends up taking 30 minutes, and everything is still wet, despite it having a "dryness sensor"
I've just started using the timer function on the dryer and it's been mostly accurate, plus or minus a few minutes perhaps.
And the timer goes off when you are in the shower - by the time you are done you forgot about the alarm. (I have more than once stopped an alarm I intended to just snooze)
Your comment reminds me of those infomercials where they try really hard to make something as simple as cooking spaghetti look like an unimaginable nightmare that no one could possibly accomplish
You have to imagine other people might think differently than you do...
I forget, it happens, nothing I can do with it. Having notification on my phone (place I'll look sooner or later) that laundry is done was great lifehack for me. No longer I forget and leave it there for whole night or even days...
Disclaimer: I use Home Assistant too and I'm guilty of all these things.
Home Automation is just a hobby like "productivity" tools or going all in your coffee setup. You tell yourself you are saving energy, or freeing up your mind from remembering mundane tasks but in reality it's just like a model train set.
It's fun to set up, play around and maintain it for some people. If you'd do the math of setting up hundreds of dollars worth of smart appliances, bulbs, hubs and thermostats to tweak your heaters slightly while you are not at home...it will probably take decades to break even, if at all.
Are you telling me that my home assistant enabled humidity sensors in my garden that trigger the arduino hose valve could just be replaced by a watering can??
It's a pattern among tech folks to try to solve things with technology.
It is hard to stop yourself from treating every minor inconvenience as nail for which you have a handy hammer, and I find myself overcomplicating things in my life as a result.
The goals are noble but the methods bring a lot of the complexity simply repackaged (and potentially amplified).
A healthy relationship with technology isn't the same as not using technology.
> It doesnt seem like any of this would really be useful as you'd have to enter all the useful data manually(calendar).
You have to enter calendar data somewhere, right now I often have the same info or different subset split between my calendar, work ones, my wifes one and the one on the wall. Even the paper version requires having entered the data - more so than the tech based ones because an invitation sent by email now needs to be manually copied over. Or have I misunderstood?
> You dont need real time information because you know how long it takes since you've done it 1000s of times and it beeps. All these things are just managed in our heads subconsciously.
This seems odd to me. First just a couple of things
> You dont need real time information because you know how long it takes
1. It takes different amounts of time depending on the load and settings
2. Knowing how long it takes and when to take it out is something the person who put it on knows, but there are different people in this house who can all do either task
3. It's in a place where the beeping is often not heard
But more interestingly is that we're comparing two different approaches. One is
* A note written in a place that washing needs to be taken out if it's not been done.
You describe this as an unhealthy relationship with technology.
Your better solution is
* Work out when a machine will finish its task, remember this
* Wait for the machine to shout at you
* If you don't hear it shouting then keep checking the time to see if it's finished its task
* Make sure you track all of this in your head on top of anything else
This is more healthy? Than a note on the wall that says "change the washing"?
Imagine you started with the typical thing being that you have a note on the wall that says "washing is done" when it's done and the machine itself is silent. I come along and tell you I've got a much better, healthier way of interacting with it - wait for it to make an annoying noise!
I dont wait for the noise. I dont wait for the washing machine to finish. I put it on and then at some point later in the day I hang it out. No one is struggling to know if the washing machine is on you can hear it.
Spending $1000s on this setup and running it 24/7 is a waste in every regard except hobby enjoyment.
That's the ethos of the entire tiny home movement. Large houses consume a lot of time and mental energy just to maintain them and to walk from one side to the other. I noticed it a lot moving from a 3 story 2,500 sq ft home in Seattle to a similarly sized apartment in Berlin that's all on one floor. My kids do miss sliding down the stairs though.
You can set an alarm on your phone when it starts like millions of people do instead of spending $2000 overengineering a solution to this "problem".
The fact that people are complaining about the cognitive load and beeping sound when running a washing machine is utterly baffling to me. This goes beyond sheltered "first-world problems". There is something insidious about this about micro-optimising for non-issues, something dystopian.
Not all washing machines have static wash times, some (like ours) adjust the time based on what you actually put into it. Not to mention there are like 5-6 different programs we use, who has time to remember kind of how long time each program takes? And it doesn't display how long it'll take until it measured the load, which takes 2-3 minutes.
So instead; chuck in the clothes and cleaning product, put the program, go do other stuff and await for Home Assistant to tell us when it's done. Over-engineered? Nah, just comfortable modern living.
But why? Why add a manual, less accurate step instead of just using HA and solving it once? Steaming takes 20 minutes, a quick wash is ~1h, a boil wash more like 4h.
Why do I want only my phone to have a notification? Why do I want it to override other settings and go off at a set time rather than when I choose to interact (as a notification would)?
You can absolutely solve this in other ways, but adding an automation into HA for notifying me about forgetting to setup the dishwasher took a few minutes max and I only had to do it once.
I'm not saying don't use HA - you do you. I get the alure of home automation and I'm glad you're finding it useful. All I'm saying is that the argument that 'the phone timer might be wrong therefore use HA' is a false dichotomy. You know what kind of wash you've selected and you know how long it takes roughly - you wrote it in your comment :-) It takes a few seconds to set a timer for that plus 10% for variability.
> ... adding an automation into HA ... took a few minutes max
... plus the hours it takes to setup and maintain HA and the machine its running on and the wireless hub and the dishwasher... etc. I bet you won't save back the total time spent across the whole lifetime of the system. That's not the only measure of success and that's fine.
I'm not arguing to spend lots of money, I'm saying that this is not an unhealthy tech setup. It's quite clear from this writeup that they either enjoy it or were thinking about selling it, or both, and money does not seem to be a particular concern for them. They even explicitly say it's too much for typical consumers, so they're not trying to sell you on the idea of spending this.
> You can set an alarm on your phone
I don't see "manually setup another bit of technology make an annoying noise" as a nicer or more healthy integration of technology in my life compared to a note written on the wall.
> The fact that people are complaining about the cognitive load and beeping sound when running a washing machine is utterly baffling to me
Perhaps you're reading it in some tone that suggests these are huge issues for people to deal with. I am reading them as just niceties in life. I have tried for some time to practice responding to being baffled with assuming I've not understood something, I think you might be baffled here because you have misinterpreted what people have been saying or not understood their personal issues or how easy it can be to setup some of these things.
Same as the timer on my oven is useful, but I don't need one - I could do it entirely manually right?
I have things setup to notify me if we haven't setup the dishwasher and/or the door has been left open when we head to bed. I'm not in dire need of this and my life was not falling apart at the load of remembering to do it, but it took me less time to add an automation for that than it did to either go and check the dishwasher a few times or clean up bowls in the morning for breakfast by hand. It's caught things a few times, and it's another thing I don't need to keep in my head. I'm not sure why deliberately choosing to increase cognitive load is somehow a good thing, and these things all do build up. I could remember all my appointments and schedules and tasks I need to complete, but calendars and reminders and todo-lists are useful.
For you, maybe, but outsourcing ambient awareness of my environment is what’s finally enabled me to take that leap to a 10x dev. Well, that, and cranial cooling fins.
> All these things are just managed in our heads subconsciously.
That’s certainly true for some people, and I envy them. Others of us can easily forget the washing machine was on and needs emptying for anything up to three or four days, running it each day before promptly forgetting to empty it before it needs doing again.
It depends if that works for you or not. For some if that alarm goes off while they're in the middle of something they'll either snooze it (now you're getting disturbed more times) or turn it off, perhaps both. This seems quite a bit more intrusive than what is essentially a little todo list that's updated without having to remember to do it.
This also just adds a series of manual steps, along with having tech setup to deliberately get your attention at a time that may not work for you. I'm not sure why this is seen as a nicer solution than having it happen automatically for you.
Peoples brains work in different ways, and they have different lives. Some days I can more calmly go around dealing with things, others I have a very large number of parallel things to do with more interruptions happening as well (two young kids will do that).
> For example the washing machine. You dont need real time information because you know how long it takes since you've done it 1000s of times and it beeps
I'm not sure this is true anymore, first you usually do different programs depending on what you put into it, and modern washing machines also automatically adjust the washing time depending on how much you throw into it, at least our ~2 year old one does, I'm sure others do too.
I basically never know how long time it will take, sometimes it takes 1.5 hours and sometimes 3 hours. Our washing machine is further away from where we can hear the melody, so having a notification appear on the phone when it's done is actually quite handy, at least for our situation.
I can't image being so busy that hanging the clothes for 10 minutes could be seen as not important. We all live different lives :)
Besides, the notification is for notifying us, doesn't mean we need to do it within N minutes, it can wait until your Very Important Business Call is over or whatever. As long as it's done before it starts to get overly humid and starts to smell.
Eh, ok, that's not how I treat them, and if you want to remain sane, you might want to give it a try to treat them differently too, because that sounds highly annoying and borderline frustrating.
I don't have notifications on. I see it all the time with colleagues who are constantly stopping what they're doing to look at the latest slack or email or whatever on their phone, let alone the "breaking news" alerts that news companies like to push out every few hours
On all settings except timer, my dryer is pretty much useless. I set it to dry my bedsheets and towels with bulky item preset, max dry (who chooses minimum dry for anything?) and it'll say it'll take 1h30m, ends up taking 30 minutes, and everything is still wet, despite it having a "dryness sensor"
I've just started using the timer function on the dryer and it's been mostly accurate, plus or minus a few minutes perhaps.
Fortunately, we usually just throw clothes in the dryer before bed, so we don't need a system to remind us when it's done — if it's not done by morning time then we probably need a new dryer!
> For example the washing machine. You dont need real time information because you know how long it takes since you've done it 1000s of times and it beeps. All these things are just managed in our heads subconsciously.
Actually, this is one example of home automation that works very well. My washer will remind me that wash is ready to move to the dryer, and stops reminding me once the washer door opens.
It means that a) I don't have to put it on my mental reminders, b) it works very well with anybody else in the family that does a wash and _they_ forget to move it to the dryer.
Using technology doesn't necessarily mean an unhealthy relationship with technology. I think it differs for everyone.
For me, I think a healthy relationship with technology is technology that is there when I need it, not there when I don't. Added benefit if the technology knows when it's needed (ie alarms and such).
Crucially, a healthy relationship with technology for me is consuming less (reading less "news" and blogs and social media) and creating more (writing, projects, etc). So the concept of using technology to build something that is there when the family needs it and is in the background when not is a healthy relationship imo.
Different cycles take different amounts of time. Personally, I have a notification when it starts and a notification when it ends.
The "x minutes ago" on the when it started is really useful and generally enough to know when the cycle will end. Having that timer started automatically is pretty useful in itself.
Literally every person I know who is obsessed with home automation has spend thousands of bucks and hundreds if not more hours on automating things that take a second or cost two bucks for a paper version that doesn't use electricity
The article is about a 2000$ eink display that shows a calendar and the weather. Your phone does that for free and you don't need to walk to the hallway every time.
This is basically anti-technology. It takes more time, money and effort than just buying something from the dollar store that does the same thing
The sunk cost and dollar store arguments assume the goal is information retrieval at minimum cost.
The relationship with technology you're designing around your family is worth considering too.
Looking at a shared hallway screen that shows a shared calendar which doesn't exist to pull anyone into a feed doesn't make a worse phone, it's solving a different level of shared understanding entirely.
The assumption that the phone is a neutral free tool tends to come most naturally to people who haven't yet thought about who designed the defaults and why. Free at point of use isn't the same as free. Someone optimized very hard for your continued presence.
There is that - I won't object to hobbies, though I often do ask 'what is wrong with the common dumb switch. Which is why I have only 2 in my house - there are two lights where the standard switch isn't good enough.
I love how every chain in this thread starts off defending the practical utility of all this but ends with defending "learning" and "hobbies" when someone points out that you don't need to spend $2000 and 100 hours to know when a washing machine cycle ends.
Its disingenuous to claim that OP spent that much time and money to know when the washing cycle was complete. That's one of several different things the screen can do in addition to everything else it can display.
It's amazing how enticing dominos of chiming in with snark can feel.
It's also possible that the sentence struck a nerve because it's a pretty simple lens and test.
All the scrolling is free labour for tech/social media companies. Other folks seem to use it more as a platform to create, publish or be more mindful of their interactions compared to passive consumption and reaction.
Family schedules can be a unique and valuable problem to solve, namely how much more valuable time becomes, as well as how much a little bit of optimizing can give back.
For example the washing machine. You dont need real time information because you know how long it takes since you've done it 1000s of times and it beeps. All these things are just managed in our heads subconsciously.