If you ask for a raise and they say “maybe in two to three years” thats simply a polite no.
> “you know the world outside is hostile to job seekers and a steady paycheck beats the unemployment line”
You can search for a new job while employed. Unless you are stuck on an underwater submarine playing hide-and-seek you can always fire off a few inquiries.
> You can search for a new job while employed. Unless you are stuck on an underwater submarine playing hide-and-seek you can always fire off a few inquiries.
Technically you can, but there are recruiters who tag you as unreliable and a mercenary for trying to jump ship. I had the displeasure of interviewing with a hiring manager who seemed to have booked an interview just to criticize the audacity of an applicant for having applied to their open position while still employed. I'm talking about a tone such as presenting gems such as "how can I defend your application to other hiring managers" and "why would we invest in you if you're likely to switch roles in two years".
Except the first one, every job I’ve ever had, I’ve found while holding another job. No one has ever commented about it. And from the other side of the table, it also seems fine to me if a candidate has a job.
I think if you regularly change jobs more than every two years or if 15 years into your career you have never held a job longer than 4 years, that might be a flag go some recruiters/companies.
But the hiring manager in your post sounds highly abnormal. Switching jobs while you have a job is absolutely the norm.
Meh. Just walk out of that interview. Seriously. Ditch that place immediately.
Smart places know that the people they want to hire are the kind of people who already have jobs. A place that doesn't know that is going to hire the kind of people who are currently unemployed. They get people who have fewer options. And they tend to treat them less well, because they have fewer options.
in some fields, you must look for your next job while you are employed.. because the competition is so harsh that others only consider those currently employed in that field.. low level executives, some specialized Master's degrees..
I am doing that but I also got annoyed by recruiters or HR or whoever that was in last 2 inquiries I sent out.
They would call me out of the blue in the middle of the day expecting I pick up and have time to talk with them like I would be jobless person waiting for them to call. I didn’t pick up at all because I was busy.
Earlier I remember I would get an email to at least give me heads up they will contact me next week or something. It was also quite common recruiters were calling me at the end of the day.
For those last ones I got an email saying they were calling. I replied they can try on a day where I don’t have meetings and best time - they never replied to email or tried to call….
I don’t expect it should be all about me, but my idea is that small email saves everyone’s time.
You actually get phone calls from recruiters? All my initial interactions with them have invariably been over email, LinkedIn, etc. Been that way for many years now.
With a mentality like that no, you’re not going to get another job.
Job seeking while you’re employed means you have to subjugate the needs of your current employer. When an opportunity calls? You pick up the phone!
You’re the kind of person who is so dedicated to your job that you will have to lose it and then be unemployed before you get a new one. That is absolutely ok. Job seeking while employed takes a ton of energy and might not be worth it to you. Don’t bother then.
All your posts in this discussion is full of straw men and twisting peoples' words. Do better. Not fruitful to have a discussion with you. (Like your ranty assumptions about what kind of person someone is, come on...)
And no, if I were to answer the phone where every spammy prospective idiot is calling me it would be multiple times a day. I don't care.
I know someone who has used this trick to get a pay rise whilst not looking for work.
You wait until your boss is in earshot, get someone to ring you and the walk quickly away from your desk saying "yes, yes I'm still interested... Just a sec".
It might make your boss actually consider the reality of replacing you.
I'm sorry that just comes across as unprofessional, weak and passive aggressive. If someone started doing that on my team I'd take it as part of the case against them not a reason to fight to keep them. Also presumably that's in ear shot of other team members, it's disruptive to team morale. If you are serious about looking elsewhere, make it clear you want to stay but xyz is making you consider other options. Do it in private with the right people. Or say nothing at all.
That's not a polite no. That's more a passive-aggressive no. ("Passive aggressive" may not be quite right, but it's something in the neighborhood, and I'm not coming up with better words.) It's "no, but we don't have the honesty to just tell you no".
Exactly. A lot of this reads as a coping story about losing a job. If you were laid off, chances are you weren't valuable enough. Pure layoffs happen. But from my experience useful employees almost never get let go. Doesnt mean theyre bad, just they weren't productive in the organization.
Another thing I will note is that most startups start w very little formal process. If someone wants a promotion you can just do it. But w more people you need to manage expectations. If you start dolling out promotions ad hoc, others will try to ask. And most employees are just mediocre and its difficult to be upfront w them and tell them. So it opens up the floodgates of requests
Not true at all, having seen the other side. In a large enough organization, entire divisions will be cut if a product is missing. Sometimes productive people are on the wrong product that gets slashed to maintenance mode, or they have the wrong manager. Sometimes deep cuts are necessary because the product is failing and a productive person on a growth initiative is cut for subject matter expertise in the core product that will allow maintenance mode to continue. Sometimes tenure is rewarded. Sometimes directors don't see the full story because the managers can't be told of the layoff.
Tenure, in this case, is rewarded by not being laid off - because this person had old knowledge and friends with people who were in power and knew them from earlier in the company.
It absolutely does happen. But I have also seen people rise through the ranks by just being there long enough and being competent. That said, it is not a way to maximize wage growth or general career progress by any stretch.
> But from my experience useful employees almost never get let go.
This is probably very anecdotal but I've seen entire divisions gone, hundreds of people in a flash. It's not just about what you do but also where you are in the company. Obviously this is more true in huge corporations.
> If you were laid off, chances are you weren't valuable enough. Pure layoffs happen. But from my experience useful employees almost never get let go.
I completely disagree, I’ve been on teams where the best players were let go because organizational changes.
As a matter of fact, I’m currently on a team where one of our best performing, well loved, cross team contributors was let go during Christmas for what I can only classify as politics. It was a company wide RiF and our manager protested, but he was in the target region. I honestly would have put myself or others on the chopping block first, as I don’t contribute half as much and get pad substantially more.
> “you know the world outside is hostile to job seekers and a steady paycheck beats the unemployment line”
You can search for a new job while employed. Unless you are stuck on an underwater submarine playing hide-and-seek you can always fire off a few inquiries.