There was an excellent episode of In the Heat of the Night in 1991 called "Sweet Sweet Blues", which was a murder-mystery about a murder ballad. The crime happened 40 years earlier, and they solved it by tracking down the composer of the song.
The answer to the question "whodunnit" was a lyric in the song that the composer had kept out of all performances since soon after the crime. It's awesome how they work the music and performance into the act - a really fun episode!
All of men who decided their desire or even just convenience was more important than a woman's life. The songs dwell on the murderer's emotion, and pretty much skip over the innocent facing death. Because men matter, and women are property I guess.
'Great American' my ass. Strange anybody today would want to repeat these stories.
Haven't female murderers been treated about the same? I think it's more just people's fascinations with the motivations and feelings behind murder than some misogynistic stuff. To make that claim, you really would have to compare apples to apples. In ballads about female murderers, are the subjects treated differently? I can't really think of all that many, but in ones about Lizzie Borden, I don't recall any difference in focus or tone from the ones about male killers.
The victim is described, sure. But their memory? Not so much - they get a line maybe. Then a dozen stanzas about the murderer. These ballads are dated, tone-deaf and disturbing.
It's rather inappropriate that we don't change names of victims when they are no longer relevant to active investigation. I would rather die in a slip and fall accident than become famous and have details of my life explored by becoming notable for being the victim of an asshat, thank you very much.
Woman being brutally murdered by man/lover/.. is definitely the dominant theme.
You could compare it to the modern tv thriller, how many plots revolve around a woman killed by a man with the female character basically just playing the part of the symbolic victim?
I'm not sure the idea that the murderer's emotions are given so much more focus resonates with me though. Obviously hard to generalise as the world of folk music is vast, but my impression is that these kinds of songs usually skip over almost all nuance and detail, being made up of a few standard tropes/cliches, and the interest often comes from some twist/variation on the theme, or what the musician brings to it.
The world of folk music is filled with distasteful themes, and stuff that hasn't aged well. I'd say that sometimes performing a flawed song in a modern context can itself be subversive though. Not every performance of a song is a celebration of it. There's space for nuance.
I think I agree with you - the song is more about the situation around the murder. I think in the past, that was a way to remember the victim for those that already knew everything about the victim because they were neighbors etc...
As time goes on, it becomes more a haunting performance using the murder as a playground for emotion...
My reaction was also along these lines. They might be better called "domestic violence ballads". Perhaps the focus is on the perspective of the man because he's the one left alive in the end to lament his fate.
This is the terrible things about murders... their victims never have a voice going forward, but they do. Good observation - what do you think is the right thing... completely forget the event? completely hide the murderer? review the victim's life before the murder?
Its a hard one for sure... you don't want to make evil famous... you dont want to invade the privacy of the victim... but you need to prevent things in the future
You seem to object to depicting someone or someone's thoughts who is objectionable without either a big sign from the author saying "HEY REMINDER I THINK THIS IS BAD" or presenting equal counter weight to the people they hurt or something.
You're free to think these particular lyrics/songs are bad of course, but the rationale you give and the larger discussion over whether you are able to create great art with the issues you present is more interesting than just whether these particular songs have merit imo.
When I read these lyrics and your comment it reminded me of the big debate over Eminem's lyrics almost 20(!) years ago, where he would write songs at length about fantasizing over murdering his ex-wife. Was he channeling that rage he felt into art about the human condition and how it deals with pain/rage when one feels hurt, or was he just making murder porn to work out his demons? Ultimately these were interesting discussions i remember, but these days the discussions seem to be dominated by childish (sorry but it's how I see it not to pile on you particularly) notions that "this makes me feel bad therefore it is bad" or "depiction equals endorsement." The end result is truly subversive art that challenges the mind seems to be in short supply at the moment and it's a real shame.
I thought of "Folsom Prison Blues" by Johnny Cash as a counterexample since in that song the victim is a man, but then thought of "Cocaine Blues" by Cash which has a female victim. "Cocaine Blues" is mainly about drug use with the man killing his cheating wife treated as a minor detail.
I thought Cash wrote the song and so it wouldn't count as a murder ballad if we say murder ballads have to be folk songs, however it turns out Cash just did a famous cover of the song written by T. J. "Red" Arnall and recorded by Arnall probably in 1947 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_Blues, which was in turn based on an American folk song "Little Sadie" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Sadie. So "Cocaine Blues" is a murder ballad in the classic sense, as well as an example of centering the man as you say.
Is there a murder ballad that doesn't center the murderer? I'm skeptical if it's actually about the sex and not just that most murders are committed by men, and people are most interested in the murderer and the murder itself.
Ha - it is amazing how much of human history is just misery, isn't it? even for children growing up, there is always "evil" that is shared through stories like this as lessons. It's part of just being a human.
"Murder ballads make up a notable portion of traditional ballads, many of which originated in Scandinavia, England, and lowland Scotland in the premodern era (suggesting an ultimate Germanic cultural origin)."
Makes me want to listen to Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds "Murder Ballads" again... but i find it hard to work with good lyrics in my music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_Ballads
One of my favourite murder ballads, Peggy Seeger singing Jellon Graeme.
Strange melody, strange name, banjo, gruesome, revenge, it's got a lot going on.
I was going to say "Long Black Veil" but I realized that one's about a man who's hanged for a murder he didn't commit (he was in bed with his best friend's wife, and refused to use that as an alibi at the trial).
The answer to the question "whodunnit" was a lyric in the song that the composer had kept out of all performances since soon after the crime. It's awesome how they work the music and performance into the act - a really fun episode!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0610671/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet%2C_Sweet_Blues