Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Criminal cases are a red herring. We need to address the structures and institutions that make tasing pregnant women possible.

Let's put it like this: if you came into your office one morning and the guys in the cubicles next to you are shooting up black tar heroin (and no one acts like they're doing anything wrong), does the problem lie with the individuals or with the corporation?



If criminal cases are a red herring, then why do we even need laws or police at all?

It's eminently possible for anyone to go around tasing anyone else. Law enforcement fundamentally relies on post-facto punishment. Most people don't tase pregnant women due to a sense of common decency, but most of the remaining don't do so because of the threat of punishment. When you remove the threat of punishment, it allows the deviant group to act out their desires with literal impunity.


I want all the brutality to stop, not just the murders. Any effort to prosecute will get so watered down that only the worst will be punished so we can act like we're doing something about the problem.


You can make that general argument about any single approach to reform. Let's not put all our hopes in any one single solution, and let's not be misled into false dichotomies.


It's exactly this line of thinking that will tell people the problem is solved once those four policemen are convicted. If a gang is terrorizing people, does the problem go away when you put a few members in jail?


If I can continue your analogy (though I admit it's a little confusing) - if a gang member is caught breaking the law and we have another law preventing prosecution, let's fix that bug.

Structural issues which create gangs need to be addressed, and it's true that convicting the gang members might detract from the need for those structural reform, but enforcing laws is still a part of the incentive system we have to encourage people to not break the law.

We should fix structural issues, but that doesn't mean we need to leave clear bugs in tact to increase pressure on fixing those issues.


... is there a problem at all? If all they're doing is shooting up then the problem, if any, lies within the observer's mind. OTOH if they get so high they can't perform their job, and the corporation still doesn't care, then I guess there's an issue somewhere. But I don't know if heroin is the problem; if my coworkers aren't doing their job because they would rather play Snood that's equally as bad.


To address that I feel like you have to ask what would moving officers to pursue the issue that way. I suspect part of the answer is quotas and a “never back down” mindset.

QI seems like the bandaid. If you don’t push hostile policing, maybe you don’t get hostile police.


I disagree with the conclusion that qualified immunity is unimportant. It's one small facet of a system which encourages hostile policing. Others include the practice of exclusively hiring veterans, access to military gear, friendly relations between police and local officials, and the nature of their training and culture. To some extent, these things reinforce one another. I think the larger problem can only be addressed by tackling the smaller problems one-by-one.


I don’t think QI is insignificant.

I suspect that policing practices became hostile first and QI is the legal loophole to get away with it. If you eliminate it the “system” will find another way to do it. “Active” policing is a lot of “cleaning up the neighborhood” and “maintaining property value”. As long is that is the part of the goal there will be away to protect police.


I agree.


I agree fully




Consider applying for YC's Summer 2026 batch! Applications are open till May 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: