A friend of mine finds it difficult to believe that one can get a job programming without the credential. I'm telling him that it's helpful not necessary, if you can show you can code.
Without going into too much detail, my life kinda screwed up in my late teens (mostly by me), and I had few qualifications and wasn't really going anywhere.
I didn't have any degree and after a miserable period on the dole started work at a data entry place. I'd been interested in programming since my first ZX81, and started finding things I could do to optimise the data entry process. Naturally, the company loved this and I got promoted. I used that as a portfolio for my next, slightly more developer-like job, and then wrote their website and e-survey stuff for them and used that as a portfolio for the next job and so on. I had a very clear plan - work for a proper software dev company one day.
11 years later and I'm the best paid dev in the building, working for a large multi-national, with a fancy title and everything. And have been for a few years now.
You don't need to have a degree to prove you can do something, you just need to do it. Even with a degree it's all about drive and determination. So - if you want to get into programming then write plenty of your own stuff, or get into lots of Open Source, then get a list of firms in your area and ring them to try to get them to look at what you've done.
When I interview people these days, that's what I'm looking for - enthusiasm about their craft, not necessarily their credentials. We've hired some people with top class degrees who unfortunately think the learning stops there.
Think of a degree just as a short cut to an interview, if you happen to already have the degree. Oh - but stay away from big firms, you'll never get past a Human Resources department with enthusiasm alone.
The irony is that I'm now getting sick of being employed to write endless enterprise drivel, and now my ambitions are to do with starting out for myself. Hence reading lots of HN.
I have found through experience that different cultures/markets require different qualifications. In the US you can create some practical experience (home projects) for yourself and usually find a lower-paying entry level position with a smaller company. After a few years experience you don't get asked about your lack of formal education anymore (this is what I did by the way, I have a Sociology undergrad).
In London, I found that people are much more interested in degrees and pedigree. Job interviews often started with education questions first, and I feel like I was considered less valuable because of the lack of CS background (that was my opinion at least).
In Switzerland, where I am now, the people I encounter place a very high value on training programs. Scrummaster training is more valuable than Scrum experience and programming certificates are important in a way I never expected. However, the Swiss have a very strong culture of apprenticeship and "Lehrling" programs, and both shops I have worked in have many more interns than I have seen elsewhere. And the interns are often in the last phase of their Masters degree!
This is all just experiential and not very quantitative. But my answer is it depends on where you live. If you agree to work for less than the next person then I think you have a very good chance of landing a programming job.
It really depends on what type of programming you and your friend are talking about, it may be worth clarifying this with him.
Though from personal experience I would say with most jobs (and especially those relating to web development), lack of experience and social skills will play a larger roll in whether or not you're able to secure the position you want rather than lack of a degree.
I imagine in web development, writing stuff and putting it on a portfolio site or github would be pretty good, or patching an existig community website, or writing stuff for charities or small businesses.
But for other types of programming? What would be the best way to get internships, or to develop something that can showcase your abilities?
What degrees does your friend see as being relevant?
Most job specs I've seen look for a technical/scientific/quantitative degree. This doesn't have to be something related to computing: it normally translates to degrees such as maths, engineering and physics.
Getting a first programming job without any degree is harder, although if you show you can code (via prior experience) then it's not a big deal.
Looking for a first programming job with an unrelated degree (say, something creative) and no experience might raise some eyebrows.
He has a B.A. and M.A. in Classics, and is doing a B.A.I. in Engineering at the moment. He has a decent grasp of the theory of C++, having read through Stroustrup though I'm not sure how good the practice is.
In Ireland, we've recently moved from a four year B.Eng. (Honours) system for professional qualification to three year Bachelor (Ordinary) with a subsequent two year Masters being necessary for professional accreditation. Given that it's a new programme no one has any idea how the new degree will be viewed in the marketplace.
I'm of the opinion that it'll be a good standalone qualification, he isn't.
It can be done with nearly that exact degree. My B.A. is in Latin, but I was able to leverage that plus a good interview into an internship at a good company. I took that experience and got a job at a small software company as well as a spot in an M.S. program, which then led to better opportunities. It hasn't been a straight road, but it's gotten me where I wanted to go. I think your friend can do the same.
I started off doing software tech support. While doing support I built tools to streamline and automate things. Managers took notice and offered me a job where it was a blend of coding, system analysis, and handling escalated support issues. I automated pretty much everything in that job as well. At that point I had some useful experience on my resume so I started interviewing for "pure" software engineering jobs.
I've been a software engineer for the last 10 years. No CS degree (though I did study engineering), but I love building stuff and I think that passion came through in my interviews.
I think programmers have one common skill set that gets them off to software development - mathematical acumen.
Of course, it should still go with passion and and tenacity to become a good developer. There's a lot of programmers / coders out there who did not have any formal degree or training in the field of software development but have made some great strides. The key thing here is in doing it, execution and making value out of the codes you write.
I didn't have any degree and after a miserable period on the dole started work at a data entry place. I'd been interested in programming since my first ZX81, and started finding things I could do to optimise the data entry process. Naturally, the company loved this and I got promoted. I used that as a portfolio for my next, slightly more developer-like job, and then wrote their website and e-survey stuff for them and used that as a portfolio for the next job and so on. I had a very clear plan - work for a proper software dev company one day.
11 years later and I'm the best paid dev in the building, working for a large multi-national, with a fancy title and everything. And have been for a few years now.
You don't need to have a degree to prove you can do something, you just need to do it. Even with a degree it's all about drive and determination. So - if you want to get into programming then write plenty of your own stuff, or get into lots of Open Source, then get a list of firms in your area and ring them to try to get them to look at what you've done.
When I interview people these days, that's what I'm looking for - enthusiasm about their craft, not necessarily their credentials. We've hired some people with top class degrees who unfortunately think the learning stops there.
Think of a degree just as a short cut to an interview, if you happen to already have the degree. Oh - but stay away from big firms, you'll never get past a Human Resources department with enthusiasm alone.
The irony is that I'm now getting sick of being employed to write endless enterprise drivel, and now my ambitions are to do with starting out for myself. Hence reading lots of HN.