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I'm very fond of Apple's business stance; my concern is not with it, but with their technological stance. Apple products are built on lock-in; they are proprietary and closed, not open. Frankly, at this point they're not even really all that good (in fact, sometimes embarrassingly bad — something not limited to Apple!).

I want the freedom to tinker, the freedom to review, the freedom to extend. That's why I use Linux.



Locked and closed compared to what? What makes Android what it is to most people is a bunch of closed sourced Google Services and a bunch of closed sourced binary drivers. That are so closed that not even Google was able to upgrade some of their Nexus devices because they were dependent on closed source drivers.


> Locked and closed compared to what?

Did you miss the part where Linux was mentioned as the preferred tinkerers OS?

This isn't about Android vs iPhone, it's about freedom vs no freedom.


So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X - a certified Unix operating system?


> So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X

- The kernel (yes, there's Darwin — I don't believe it's possible to replace a working macOS kernel with my own build)

- The window manager

- The Finder

- Cocoa

- Safari

- XCode (although I believe some components are open source)

- iMessage

- Facetime


The Window Manager - nothing stopping you from using XWindows.

The Finder - it's just a file manager, what's stopping you from using any other file manager?

Cocoa - is just a Framework for building Mac apps. Nothing stopping you from using another Framework

Xcode - just an IDE on top of open source build tools.

IMessage - just a messaging program. Nothing stopping you from using another messaging program.

FaceTime - just video chat, nothing stopping you from using another video chat.

So what part of the "kernel" are you trying to replace and to add what functionality?


The word "kernel" has a special meaning for operating systems.


I understand that. What exactly do you want to change at the kernel level?


Pfffft. Yeah there's "nothing stopping you" except for everything.

You can't get rid of the window manager, the Finder or the Dock. Heck, you can't even stop Finder from running in any supported way and even if you manage to, you can't replace Finder in every program to open or save files.

You can't replace the Dock because Apple won't let you modify a private API for describing available screen space. Every Dock replacement has the same bug - windows end up behind the replacement dock when you maximize them.

Even Microsoft gives you hooks to change things like the Taskbar, Explorer and so on where Apple gives you nothing.


Quitting the Finder:

https://www.howtogeek.com/259378/how-to-quit-the-finder-in-o...

Run x11 on the Mac.

https://www.xquartz.org/

I found the link from an Apple support page.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201341

The Finder isn't used to "save files".

But alternate file managers...

https://lifehacker.com/5824343/the-best-alternative-file-bro...


Yes thanks, that's what I was laughing about. You can attempt to run such a system, but since nobody does (and for good reason) all your tinkering will be in vain and you'll have a fairly useless system. Enjoy that!

You can't actually tinker with the things that you want to use though, can you? Nope. Again, Microsofts offerings simply outclass Apple here - they've got hooks to let you modify just about every interface in Windows whereas with Apple you have to resort to basically re-building your entire OS for the right to tinker.

Apples offerings are simply not tinker-friendly and everybody knows this, notwithstanding desperate attempts from the Apple-faithful to disagree.

> The Finder isn't used to "save files".

Yes it is. The GUI components for every "save file" operation in almost every existing Mac app are absolutely sourced from and tightly integrated with Finder.


So I just showed you how you could do it with links and because "no one does it" that means it "can't be done". Have you thought that the reason "no one does it" is because most people don't want to muck with their systems and just want to get stuff done?

You want to "tinker with the kernel" but you are complaining about modify a plist?


I didn't say that I wanted to tinker with the kernel. I want to tinker with the Finder, the Dock and the actual window manager that everybody uses, not XQuartz which nobody uses.

You showed that in order to tinker with Apples stuff you have to completely replace Apples stuff. That's hilarious!


If you go dig into my comment history I have several comments where I praise Richard Stalman and his commitment to open source. He is the zealot (and I use that word with both positive and negative connotations) that open source needs.

But I have to ask what ARE you running then? Intel? AMD? What about your phone?

If your going to make this argument in this way you better have a Stalman like response. If you are running closed source in your stack then your argument is selective.


Everyone is running closed source somewhere, even Stallman. He says in his web page describing how he does his computing that he uses credit cards sometimes, uses closed source software running on public computers that he doesn't use often, and doesn't consider anything that doesn't regularly update it's software a computer.

You might be in favor of Stallman's compromises but he has a selective argument just like everyone else.


I'd settle for iMessage and FaceTime being open...


In the case of FaceTime, it's VirnetX that's to blame. Apple's pledge to open-source it ran hard into a lawsuit from VirnetX that required Apple to redesign and still currently has them paying $439M to VirnetX for patent infringement.


I’d settle for Apple allowing you to stay in your group texts after you deactivate iMessage.




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