The Green Bay packers have an interesting approach to this problem, although it requires a fanatical fan base and special ownership provisions, and the fact that the team can't leave Green Bay (without a vote by the shareholders, who are all fans, which will never, ever, happen).
When they want to improve their stadium, they issue stock and sell more season tickets. This works because Packers stock cannot be sold or traded after purchase, and a season ticket is, for many working class Wisconsin families, an heirloom. A friend who's a Wisconsin native was put on the waiting list for season tickets at birth, and is in his parents' will to inherit his mother's ticket. His mom is probably going to die before he breaks 10,000th on the list, so that position will go to his kids. It's insane like that.
But it means that the taxpayers of Wisconsin, including those of us who, like myself, could really care less about football, don't have to foot the bill for maintenance and improvements to the Packers' stadium. But again, the Packers have a uniquely fanatical fan base, were created with provisions to keep them in Green Bay forever, and are owned by the fans.
The NFL changed the ownership rules, and the Green Bay model cannot be repeated elsewhere.
"The NFL does not allow corporate membership. Instead, it requires clubs to be wholly owned either by a single owner, or small group of owners, and requires that at least one owner owns a 1/3 stake in the team. The Packers are granted an exemption to this rule, as they have been a publicly owned corporation since before the rule was in place."
The loophole-finder in me wonders if it would be possible to create "The Mitochondrial Eve Family Trust", for all descendants of mitochondrial Eve, by invitation only. Assets could then be contributed into this trust in exchange for season tickets to a football team, and the trust would own the team. Additional restrictions (eg. X generations of residency in a certain metropolitan area) might apply.
As a Green Bay Packer Shareholder, there's a lot wrong with your idea. As per the 2011 Offering Document[1]:
1) The limit isn't 5% per individual, 30% per family. It's 200 shares. Total.
2) Shares can only be transferred to immediate family, defined as "the spouse, children, mother, father, brothers, sisters, or any lineal descendant of a shareholder". An improper transfer will give the Corporation the right to purchase the shares at 2 .5 cents per share.
3) "As is the case with holders of Outstanding Shares, a purchaser of Common Stock in the Offering will not receive any
Packers merchandise, through the purchase of Common Stock. However, purchasers will play a key role in facilitating
the continued viability of a professional football team in Green Bay and will have the opportunity to have a voice in
the Corporation’s governance. In addition, shareholders will receive an invitation to the Corporation’s annual meeting
and have the opportunity to purchase exclusive shareholder merchandise."[1]
Or in the words of Tom from "Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels", "You get a gold plated Rolls-Royce, as long as you pay for it."
So what do you get? A piece of paper. The right to vote. The ability to purchase specially branded merchandise. It's not even really a fan club.
He was talking about the rules for other teams (pointing out that the minimum stake has gone down from 30% to 5%, apparently). The Green Bay model is explicitly banned for every other team.
It wouldn't make sense to consider family lineage from before the team existed. That alone limits how much you can expand the pool of eligible shareholders.
It depends on the state. Some still have rules against eternal trusts (google "rule against perpetuities") but the trend is now towards the supernatural. So it might fly as an Alaska trust.
I've heard about an exemption for baseball, although that came from judicial corruption rather than being a legislative effort. Confirm that there's a specific legislative exemption for football too?
[1] 15 U.S. Code § 1291 - Exemption from antitrust laws of agreements covering the telecasting of sports contests and the combining of professional football leagues
[2] 26 U.S. Code § 501 - Exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc.
Football and baseball are not equivalently exempt. Baseball enjoys far broader exemption. The NFL does have some conditional exemptions, but not in the same scope [1]. Recently, the US Supreme Court said exactly as much [2] in a very specific scenario.
It's been tried a few times... Probably the best challenge was the USFL, but they couldn't make a go of it over the long term, and that was when the NFL media machine was much less entrenched. The ESPN 30 for 30 film "Small Potatoes: Who Killed The USFL?" is pretty interesting (especially given that Trump was a key player in that drama)[1]
The alternative is to change a majority of people's minds that this is something morally wrong with the world, make cases to supreme court and/or lobby congress and eventually turn the tide in your favor. Not really sure which way is easier.
The NFL gave up nonprofit status last year, and its status as one was a bit of a misunderstanding. All the teams (except the Packers) were taxed for-profits, as was the merchandising, TV deals, etc. Basically all the revenue streams were already taxed, and now that they're not non-profit the NFL can be a lot more opaque about its finances.
Yep! The club/members have to own >50% of the club to compete in the German pro leagues
In the past, private ownership wasn't even allowed but that changed in the 90s.
Even cooler, the 2 largest football clubs on earth, Real Madrid & Barcelona are completely fan owned. They even vote for the presidency of the club! So refreshing compared to American sports, though without a salary cap their competitions are 1000x more predictable & boring. (ex. RM won their league match on Sunday 6-0, and Barca just won today 7-0)
I guess the biggest difference is that, in European soccer (especially in lovely England), the clubs are vastly more powerful than the leagues and governing bodies of the sport. In the NFL, NBA etc, the opposite seems to be the case - the teams are more like suppliers to the league.
Clarification: The corporate structure of the Green Bay Packers is shrouded in a mystery that would make a venture funded Silicon Valley company blush.
There are are multiple classes of stock. The later issued ones are indeed basically paper trinkets bought by rabid "cheese heads" so they could claim "ownership".
There is apparently no reason the owners of the few voting shares couldn't change the bylaws.
Rumor is that the NFL had to step in the 1980s (90s ?) and force the Packer owners to run a better shop (and stop paying themselves dividends). Same rumor mill reports they had to step in and force the New York Giants (who were paralyzed by two incompetent owners that owned 50% each) to run a better ship.
Note that this intervention turned around the fortunes these two teams which had earned reputations for gridiron incompetence. Miracle in the Meadowlands?
Bart Starr coach?
Both the Packers and Giants have been very competitive, well run franchises since.
Don't know about the Packers, but the league definitely intervened with the Giants. One of the Maras sold out to the Tisches, the other one is is still there.
Well, it's a good thing they've locked in a team, because no one in their right mind would build one in Green Bay Wisconsin today when there are fools in warmer climates literally throwing money at anyone who will move a team.
NFL disruption tactic: calculate sites of new major cities based on projected global temperatures, ice cap melt and rising water changing coastlines; start minor league in those cities. Wait.
How do you sell more season tickets to raise money? There are only so many seats and like you said, ticket rights are passed down from generation to generation. And like other folks said, there is a sales tax.
I'm glad there are other Wisconsinites who don't give a shit about football. HELLO FRIEND
That said, those of us in Brown County still got stuck with a 0.5% tax hike to pay for the stadium on sales tax, which I wouldn't mind so much except it stuck around about 4 years longer than it was supposed to.
Being a resident close by I can attest to what the evidence says: The argument that stadiums augment the local economy is hoo-hah. The area around the stadium is more built up, sure, and plenty of businesses do well there but the vast majority of the money goes right into the Stadium and of course the NFL, the only exceptions being the local motels (which can't be doing that well, they all look like slum housing).
Honestly I'd pay the 0.5% tax hike forever if we got rid of the stupid thing and stopped locking up the Green Bay metro area every Sunday.
Edit: For the record, it's not the amount of the tax hike, I realize I'm bitching over pennies. It's the principle that I'm subsidizing an industry that makes so much fucking money they have no business getting tax breaks on toilet paper, let alone facilities like Lambeau Field.
Annnd that's a downvote. This community prides itself on good, honest discourse and high-level language. Please don't bring us down to the level of a 7-year-old redneck.
As far as I'm concerned this community could care less about people using idiomatic English, but we care a lot about personal rudeness in comments. Please don't do this again.
If you think a comment is bad for Hacker News, you're welcome to flag it, but not to post abusive noise.
When they want to improve their stadium, they issue stock and sell more season tickets. This works because Packers stock cannot be sold or traded after purchase, and a season ticket is, for many working class Wisconsin families, an heirloom. A friend who's a Wisconsin native was put on the waiting list for season tickets at birth, and is in his parents' will to inherit his mother's ticket. His mom is probably going to die before he breaks 10,000th on the list, so that position will go to his kids. It's insane like that.
But it means that the taxpayers of Wisconsin, including those of us who, like myself, could really care less about football, don't have to foot the bill for maintenance and improvements to the Packers' stadium. But again, the Packers have a uniquely fanatical fan base, were created with provisions to keep them in Green Bay forever, and are owned by the fans.