Please ask yourself this: even if you do know 20-year-olds who have done impressive things, why would you think that such talented and/or hard-working people will not be able to achieve still more impressive things at 30, when they have roughly an order of magnitude more useful experience? What about at 40, when they have had time to see through several long-term projects?
Or look at it the other way around: do you really think none of the successful older developers today also contributed to volunteer projects during school, worked summer jobs, or tried a start-up straight out of college?
It is true that disruption of routine is sometimes important for the industry to make progress, but it says a lot that you chose the word "dominated". Our industry isn't "dominated" by disruption at all. On the contrary, it is dominated by people who make useful products, using untrendy but tried-and-tested tools and techniques, that get real work done.
Every now and then, something truly original or a genuinely creative application of an old idea comes along, and that can become a great success. But for every one of those, there are a lot of ideas that stink and go nowhere. And guess what? Many of those ideas come from the young people who are convinced they're on a winner, because they are too inexperienced to know better, where more experienced developers might have seen similar ideas fail before and know an idea was doomed before wasting any time on it. Conversely, despite your rather odd assertion that broader experience somehow implies being set in one's ways, IME those who have been around for a while are much better at spotting opportunities to fill useful niches or change the rules in a significant way, and are much better at making practical, pragmatic decisions to take advantage of those opportunities.
YMMV, but I'd bet a substantial chunk of money that in ten years' time, you'll be on my side of the argument. :-)
I was a fairly quick riser in my career. I started programming at 12, had a commercial game (value-ware CD) published at 17. Wrote a book at 21. I was a lead architect at 24, with a development team of around 30 folks at a fairly successful company. I was quite sure that I knew it all at that point.
I didn't. I just turned 30 and only 6 years later my level of knowledge and experience is far superior to what it was then. Not just in terms of pure programming knowledge, but also in terms of decision making. I've become far more practical and much more adept at translating requirements into something people can actually use.
30 year old me and 24 year old me wouldn't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things. After leaving that job I've become an entrepreneur. The sum of that experience makes me far more productive and the quality of what I make is simply better.
24 year old me could a learn a thing or two from 30 year old me. Just as I hope 30 year old me will need a good talking to by 40 year old me:)
> Ah, the Dunning-Kruger effect at its finest. :-)
While I find it regrettable that the implication of this remark is that I'm some sort of idiot who doesn't have the faintest idea what he's talking about (making him think he does), I understand how you could see this as a presentation of it. I'm not basing my claims off the fact that some of the guys I've met "know everything," I'm basing my claims off the fact that many of the most experienced developers I know don't know shit in comparison.
Granted, it's not a fair comparison of 20-something to 40-somethings at all; I've met far more mediocre 20-something programmers than I've met 40-something programmers, and I'm at a place where fantastic 20-something programmers tend to aggregate.
That said, it's not fair at all for the claim to be made that 20-year-olds are dumbass Rails coders [1] who need to just shut up and listen, because many of us are comfortable operating in a large variety of languages and large projects and are EAGER to listen to worthwhile advice (I probably average a half a post a day? Maybe less? I assure you that I visit HN far more often than that).
All that said, many of the biggest home runs in the short history of our field have come from 20 year old kids who did their own thing.
[1] Which is not, in any way, to imply that Rails coders are dumbasses. It was just the implication of ggp that the 20 year old rails coders are.
Please ask yourself this: even if you do know 20-year-olds who have done impressive things, why would you think that such talented and/or hard-working people will not be able to achieve still more impressive things at 30, when they have roughly an order of magnitude more useful experience? What about at 40, when they have had time to see through several long-term projects?
Or look at it the other way around: do you really think none of the successful older developers today also contributed to volunteer projects during school, worked summer jobs, or tried a start-up straight out of college?
It is true that disruption of routine is sometimes important for the industry to make progress, but it says a lot that you chose the word "dominated". Our industry isn't "dominated" by disruption at all. On the contrary, it is dominated by people who make useful products, using untrendy but tried-and-tested tools and techniques, that get real work done.
Every now and then, something truly original or a genuinely creative application of an old idea comes along, and that can become a great success. But for every one of those, there are a lot of ideas that stink and go nowhere. And guess what? Many of those ideas come from the young people who are convinced they're on a winner, because they are too inexperienced to know better, where more experienced developers might have seen similar ideas fail before and know an idea was doomed before wasting any time on it. Conversely, despite your rather odd assertion that broader experience somehow implies being set in one's ways, IME those who have been around for a while are much better at spotting opportunities to fill useful niches or change the rules in a significant way, and are much better at making practical, pragmatic decisions to take advantage of those opportunities.
YMMV, but I'd bet a substantial chunk of money that in ten years' time, you'll be on my side of the argument. :-)