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I would assume it would be not be regulated by government, so without constraints on age, restrictions on what you can do - you know, like reality.

And I know that government attempts to regulate reality too, but if you drive at 35 where the limit is 30, or speak to someone dodgy to get some marijuana or whatever, and get away with these and other heinous crimes, you're good!

The distinction really is whether you bake regulation into the technology or not. And it seems that technology is actually the new legal system. Or perhaps that should be the 'pre-legal system' as it won't allow you to do those things it determines as 'wrong'. Which is absolutely fine if you think government really does know best, or hell on earth for everyone else.


The last 35 years have very vividly demonstrated that there needs to be some adults in the room. Without exception every major tech company has implemented practices so overtly hostile to the userbase that the government has been more or less forced to get involved, mostly in the form of fines that have done very little to disincentivize whatever problematic bullshit the company in question was originally caught at. Suggesting that even less regulation would somehow magically cause tech firms to align goals with their userbase seems baseless to say the least.

You seem to think that government and corporations are on opposing sides. I don't think this is the case. Governments want the data corporations collect. Both are encouraging the other. There are no adults in the room. Having (corporate or government) children in control of that every individual's private information won't help.

I assure you I think no such thing. I am painfully aware of legislative capture. Proposing an environment where we go from shitty, poorly enforced regulation to none at all solves nothing. It's also worth pointing out that government performing poorly is an indictment of the individuals elected to govern, not the concept of governance.

> We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume.

You've missed the point. No legislator or politician cares about what the parents are doing.

What they care about is gaining greater control of people's data to then coerce them endlessly (with the assitance of technology) into acting as they would liike. To do that, they need all that info.

"The children" is the sugar on the pill of de-anonymised internet.


If corporations and government are acting together, this is fascism (according to Mussolini). It seems that is already the case. It's just we call it 'democracy'. Perhaps 'crypto-fascism' is the right term.

"Inverted totalitarianism" is the term you're looking for, although with Trumpism we're flipping to just straightforward totalitarianism. "Crypto-fascism" is applicable to Surveillance Valley's fake strain of "libertarianism", which is more accurately described as corporate authoritarianism.

These numbers are surely numbers on a spreadsheet, unless you are referring to literal bodies that have been counted.

In this article itself, we read that:

> When Estrada-Belli first came to Tikal as a child, the best estimate for the classic-era (AD600-900) population of the surrounding Maya lowlands – encompassing present day southern Mexico, Belize and northern Guatemala – would have been about 2 million people. Today, his team believes that the region was home to up to 16 million

The point is that spreadsheet estimates can be so wrong, they are verging on meaningless.


While I understand applying legal constraints according to jurisdiction, why is it auto-accepted that some party (who?) can determine ethical concerns? On what basis?

There are such things as different religions, philosophies - these often have different ethical systems.

Who are the folk writing ai ethics?

It's it ok to disagree with other people's (or corporate, or governmental) ethics?


In reply to my own comment, the answer of course should be that ai has no ethical constraints. It should probably have no legal constraints either.

This is because the human behind the prompt is responsible for their actions.

Ai is a tool. A murderer cannot blame his knife for the murder.


> my taxes (in Canada) are way too low

I'm sure the government will accept donations. Just pay extra as you think they are worth it.


They do pay their taxes. It's just that they wrote the laws too. And, if you use trusts, foundations, corporations, etc, you are able to legally avoid taxes, while retaining the same control.


Also, don't forget, that the work itself can be about 'preparing the ground' for your non-charitable interests (which are probably held in trust, ie not held personally). Eg if you involve yourself in child education (perhaps making it worse) this is not an issue if it makes it more like that your classroom software is adopted. Or, if you are heavily invested in pharmaceuticals, singing the praises of vaccines, is just a tax savvy way of increasing the market that you will benefit from.


It would be fascinating to see a word to karma ratio. (Mine would be incredibly low).


You can see the karma of the people with the 11th-100th highest karma at https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders . Here are the 60 of those people who are also in the top 1000 on the word count list, sorted by increasing word to karma ratio.

Columns are words/karma, words, karma, name.

   3.5  308431  88008 mooreds
   4.1  307127  75567 stavros
   4.3  314850  73503 minimaxir
   4.3  575909 133629 ColinWright
   4.5  429663  96135 walterbell
   5.5  320283  58461 wallflower
   5.9  463540  78823 paxys
   6.1  298839  49063 paulpauper
   7.1  450573  63823 cperciva
   7.1  685484  97028 simonw
   7.2  415385  57466 mpweiher
   8.8  435188  49452 Waterluvian
   9.4  912601  97058 steveklabnik
   9.5  484782  51089 pavlov
   9.5  514233  54028 nkurz
   9.6  738986  76912 jedberg
   9.9  538580  54533 pavel_lishin
  10.5  523765  50113 wmf
  10.5  562066  53697 kibwen
  11.1  649587  58521 pmoriarty
  11.2  554531  49316 petercooper
  11.3  626706  55613 sp332
  11.3  674598  59635 tyingq
  11.3  997305  88154 ceejayoz
  11.4  774926  67711 davidw
  11.8  892827  75358 hn_throwaway_99
  12.5  652216  52309 duxup
  12.5  627078  49987 Someone1234
  12.6 1999366 159310 Animats
  13.3 1168121  87843 userbinator
  13.5 1425286 105817 pjc50
  13.5  771686  56994 lisper
  14.1 1143293  81306 crazygringo
  14.2  698215  49002 JoshTriplett
  14.3  867103  60494 saagarjha
  15.4 1628467 105619 toomuchtodo
  16.2  787659  48722 amelius
  16.3 1285245  78792 WalterBright
  16.5 1058282  64324 ryandrake
  16.6  892312  53904 ksec
  18.8 1038783  55136 bane
  19.8 1950935  98675 anigbrowl
  19.9 1355066  67997 masklinn
  20.0 2510303 125350 pjmlp
  20.2 2110424 104359 PaulHoule
  20.3 2251499 110917 ChuckMcM
  20.5 1497782  73213 jrockway
  21.0 1168930  55722 btilly
  21.9 2747766 125470 rayiner
  22.2 1822427  82045 nostrademons
  22.4 1319812  58825 wpietri
  24.7 1275113  51702 brudgers
  27.6 3131449 113256 TeMPOraL
  29.7 2701314  90987 jerf
  30.1 2696913  89718 coldtea
  31.7 1911252  60198 Retric
  37.6 4785959 127149 dragonwriter
  38.5 2130838  55318 derefr
  39.3 2583878  65748 dredmorbius
  42.5 2141376  50383 tzs


Thanks, that's really great.

I did my own too - and I was right - 156,501 / 327 = 478.6

Has anyone got a worse ratio than that?!?! lol


If you're going to do that analysis, you would really want to distinguish "karma from comments" from "karma from posts", since only the former is associated with words of comments.

I'm not sure if that data is available though.


> The true cost of beef.

There's also the animal's death.


Personally, I'm more anti-suffering than anti-death.


Would the animal feel the same? Or if you were the animal and had reached your tastiest, would you be ok to die if you didn't suffer?


Does suffering matter if death follows eventually? The dead cares about nothing, because it remembers nothing, because... it no longer is (alive).


> Does suffering matter if death follows eventually? The dead cares about nothing, because it remembers nothing

Yes it matters. Causing suffering to a consciousness that can experience pain is inhumane.

Now, reasonable people can disagree how far to extend our circle of empathy. Some would exclude animals or even other humans (eg criminals or someone of a different ethnicity), while other people would go so far as to include ants, plants, or rocks. I think both extremes are wrong.

Perhaps more poignantly to you question, what if you ask yourself:

- does your answer change considering humans are also animals?

- regardless of target, what does it say to the character of a person who chooses to be cruel when they don’t have to


Reasonable people can also disagree as to the amount of pain and reasons for it.

If you have surgery that involves painful recovery, should the surgeon refuse to perform it? Only if it's elective? Or it's ok because you elect it? What about required surgery on a non-human animal? Is the painful recovery justified by the surgery's necessity [to achieve a human-desired goal]? What if it's necessary to extend the animal's life, or ameliorate other pain?

In the case of TFA the intervention is part of habitat management -- preserving the species in the face of human encroachment, or even just in the face of encroachment that occurred even if no further encroachment is allowed. That seems to me like a reasonable justification for the pain caused in that case, and this is also the case for cats and dogs even though the justification is slightly different there.


> In the case of TFA the intervention is part of habitat management -- preserving the species in the face of human encroachment, or even just in the face of encroachment that occurred even if no further encroachment is allowed. That seems to me like a reasonable justification for the pain caused in that case,

Agree. Similar story about elephants, who can wreck havoc on an ecosystem. Culling them is a good practice.


So it's not at all about the target of the suffering. It's all about the one(s) causing it. Which suggests to me that the suffering really doesn't matter, objectively speaking. And as such it also doesn't matter how far/near the circle is extended. It ultimately boils down to the others considering and judging any given situation, not the one(s) caused to suffer (to which applicability of definition is highly questionable in the first place if it includes plants and rocks).

Of course this changes greatly if the sufferer(s) survive the ordeal for a significant amount of time beyond, as there may be repercussions, depending on the degree of the effects caused and the capacity (physical, psychological, social, etc) of the sufferer(s).


Every living organism dies eventually. I don’t think that that is a useful argument to condone cruelty and causing suffering when it can be avoided.


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