> doing the __design work__ myself, by hand, before any code gets written.
So... Claude still is generating the code I guess?
And seriously, I can't understand that they thought their vibe coded project works fine and even bought a domain for the project without ever looking at source code it generated, FOR 7 MONTHS??
> And the goal of the article is to draw attention to their project.
Additionally, they couldn't even bother to write their own blog post, so it's a little hard to take them seriously when they say they're going to write their own code...
> Claude (c) by Anthropic (R) is the best thing since sliced bread and I'm Lovin' It(tm)! Here's a breakdown of you too can live a code free life for 10 easy payments of $99.99 a month if you subscribe now!
> Step one in your journey to code free life: code the whole damn project and put it together yourself
It's so much fluff and baloney and every single article is identical. And every single one is just over the top praise of Claude that doesn't come off as remotely authentic. There's always mentions of Claude "one shotting"(tm) something.
I bought domains for projects minutes after the idea.
I don’t think it’s that weird to not look at the code if it’s a side project and you follow along incrementally via diffs. It’s definitely a different way of working but it’s not that crazy.
The article explicitly says that the author looked at the diffs; it distinguishes this from "sitting down and actually reading the code", which they didn't do. So when plastic041 says the author spent 7 months vibe coding "without ever looking at source code", it's not unreasonable for dewey to assume that "looking at source code", in this context, actually means something stronger and excludes just looking at the diffs.
Seems right. This site uses `React Simple Maps` library with `Natural Earth` map data. Natural earth marks crimea Russian territory[0] in their "default" map data.
> There was only one small issue: it was written in the programming language and with the library it had been told not to use. This was not hidden from it. It had been documented clearly, repeatedly, and in detail. What a human thing to do.
"Ignoring" instructions is not human thing. It's a bad LLM thing. Or just LLM thing.
It's not necessarily "ignoring" instructions, it's the ironic effect of mentioning something not to focus on, which produces focus on said thing. The classic version is: "For the next minute, try not to think about a pink elephant. You can think about anything else you like, just not a pink elephant."
Yes exactly. But for llms it's more that it's not really "thinking" about what it's saying per se, it's that it's predicting next token. Sure, in a super fancy way but still predicting next token. Context poisoning is real
The work where I've done well in my life (smashing deadlines, rescuing projects) has so often come because I've been willing to push back on - even explicitly stated - requirements. When clients have tried to replace me with a cheaper alternative (and failed) the main difference I notice is that the cheaper person is used to being told exactly what to do.
Maybe this is more anthropomorphising but I think this pushing back is exactly the result that the LLMs are giving; but we're expecting a bit too much of them in terms of follow-up like: "ok I double checked and I really am being paid to do things the hard way".
To be fair, there is likely not much training data on the difficult conversations you need to handle in a senior position, pushback being one of them. The trouble for the agents is that it is post hoc, to explain themselves, rationalising rather than ”help me understand” beforehand.
> “Unfortunately, a lot of the internet is manipulation … Everything on the internet is fake. One thing that we always say is all opinions are formed in the TikTok comments,” Chaotic Good co-founder Jesse Coren noted.
Why is this guy talking like this? YOU are literally co-making internet full of fake!
It's worse if you read the context[0]:
Interviewer: What would you say to someone who’s freaked out by these ideas that we are talking about — who feels like they’re being manipulated by artists and marketers online?
Coren: Unfortunately, a lot of the internet is manipulation. Andrew(Chaotic Good co-founder) would always say everything on the internet is fake. All opinions are formed in the TikTok comments — which is a reminder to us of what we can help with. I don’t know if this will make anyone feel better, but a lot of what we do on the narrative side is controlling the discourse. Most people see a video or something about an album that came out, and that first comment they see becomes their opinion, even when they haven’t heard the whole album. It’s really important for us to make sure we’re ahead of it and controlling that narrative in the direction we want.
It's so weird to see empathy-speak be regularly co-opted by habitual mass manipulators. "I don't know if this will make you feel better... but we're concerned with manipulating the reactions to the reactions as well! See how much we care?" It makes me do a double-take every time someone shows actual empathy, because it's used so often as a manipulative tactic to shield oneself against critiques of soullessness.
Manipulation is emotional more than it is logical, about feelings than ideas, more in women than in men, and therefore for the majority of the audience of tiktok etc
Do you have any objective data for this? In my experience, most subjective claims about men vs. women are unresolvable as either true or false. At best, the discussion degenerates into a Jung-like discussion of anima and animus.
This is not true, in my experience. Men are just as, if not more, emotional and impulsive. Most women I know think way further ahead than the men I know, and improvise much less often. The idea that men are the rational ones is just a silly fantasy to make men feel better, I would argue. Rationality is much more correlated with socio-economic status than gender, I would bet.
I think many men don't even understand what emotional regulation looks like. They tend to spend much of their time disassociated and thinking that it's normal. I tried speaking to my father about emotional health and he thinks it's about being happy, while simultaneously being unable to consider the possibility that he got it wrong, thus demonstrating the point.
There is a lack of emotional health across genders, but on average, I think women are further along than men, simply because they're able to recognize that they are emotional beings much more often than men are.
If talking about a topic made one skilled at or reflected skill, millions of men would be star quarterbacks.
At a macro scale men and women often have different interests. They often cluster around different skillsets because their interests channel them into different activities. But emotional self-awareness isn't an activity, it's an aptitude that fundamentally both men and women exercise (or don't exercise) with similar frequency in day-to-day life. But because women tend to pursue more interpersonal relationships and discussions, they are more adept at the vocabulary, the way men know the vocabulary and rules around football. But, again, it doesn't follow that talking about something makes one more skilled at it. You can juggle tons of relationships and engage in endless discourse about emotional and mental health without having much if any meaningful emotional self-awareness. People with vulnerable-type NPD do this, and at the extreme end the condition is basically predicated on lacking the capacity for a self-awareness most other people, including isolated men, take for granted.
Relatedly, after adjusting for income and social status, it's notable that not even psychologists and therapists have significantly lower divorce rates. That really highlights in my mind that not even an in-depth, systematic, rigorous study of something necessarily makes one more adept at it's exercise, nor, apparently, more likely to meaningfully pursue and develop the skill. Though, presumably they're more adept at judging and analyzing others' emotional awareness and skill given it's the skill they actually apply in their occupation.
I don't see how we are disagreeing. Emotional self-awareness is an aptitude, one that is fundamentally experiential, and so talking about it is inherently difficult. I agree that many people who talk about it are not necessarily experiencing it, including therapists and psychologists, especially if they are using lots of abstractions.
I'm a man who has worked on my own emotional health very intentionally as an adult. I've found there are lots of ways to understand and engage with your own emotions, and they can seem contradictory if you're not thinking experientially.
But I've never found someone who behaves with high emotional awareness that doesn't have any language for describing their experiences. They can talk about it very differently from other people. There is a huge multidimensional possibility space for that.
> But I've never found someone who behaves with high emotional awareness that doesn't have any language for describing their experiences.
There's potential selection bias here, though. It's more difficult to identify people high in self-awareness who aren't inclined to discuss their own emotional experiences, unless you happen to have frequent, close interactions with them. It's like when people assume learning languages is easy based on their experience meeting people from around the world who speak their language. But you're much less likely to interact with immigrants and travelers who don't speak your own language, if only because those people aren't inclined to engage with people with whom they can't or aren't interested in communicating.
My experience (often unfortunate) tells me that there are many behaviors that masquerade as self-awareness and other reflections of inner state, but don't actually reflect what we presume it does. For example, the stereotype is that women are naturally more nurturing. Nurturing is a concept that encompasses many dimensions, and it conflates internal motivations and feelings with outward behaviors and practice. We presume nurturing implies empathy and selflessness, but there are of mothers who by all appearances (and in fact) are great nurturers, but whose internal mental experience is bereft of those qualities. They're good nurturers because ultimately we can only judge nurturing by the outcome, and it's easy to presume a naturally patient person adept at applying good parenting practices possess the inner state we associate with nurturing. Even children of such people may not realize this, depending on their own capacity for emotional discernment.
Concepts like empathy, guilt, etc, are tricky. Is a person quick to apologize driven by guilty feelings and concern for other's internal state, or are they merely adept and eager at identifying social cues and applying social norms?
In principle women could be, as a group, more likely to possess a greater capacity for and to develop self-awareness. But history and feminism and racism tells me to be highly skeptical of something like this. While biologically it's possible (and I wouldn't at all be surprised), it's not self-evident to me that self-awareness is any more valuable a skill evolutionarily for women than for men, just like intelligence isn't likely to be more valuable a skill for some ethnic groups over another. For example, generally speaking, and from an evolutionary perspective, analytical intelligence is no less an asset for a group performing less stereotypically intellectual activities (e.g. hunting) than for a group centered around stereotypically intellectual activities (e.g. accounting).
They specifically mention using video game playthroughs for rap songs as an example of targeting based on the audience. I'm somewhat perplexed how or why you turned this into a gendered thing to begin with.
> Manipulation is emotional more than it is logical, about feelings than ideas, more in women than in men, and therefore for the majority of the audience of tiktok etc
I don't think this is necessarily true that manipulation is more emotional than it is logical. On the contrary, I believe that academics and well-educated people are very susceptible to it, especially the STEM crowd. All it takes to be manipulated is someone you trust and who is like you, who is in the same peer group and who speaks the same language as you. It makes no difference whether language is “emotional” or “logical”; enough scientists have reasoned themselves into the most ridiculous bullshit and it were mostly men.
I'm really not seeing the "empathy-speak" you're referring to in that quote or the rest of the interview?
If you're referring to the quote from OP's post, "I don't know if this will make anyone feel better" isn't really appealing to empathy at all, it's basically just preemptively acknowledging what he said may sound bad and so tries to soften it a bit.
It's a rhetorical cliche that has very little to do with anyone's actual feelings.
They're certainly manipulating people with their astroturfing but via slop content like video game playthroughs for rap songs so their actual strategy doesn't seem to uniquely rely on emotional manipulation either. Just following content trends whatever they may be.
Weaponizing "empathy" just seems like a complete red herring that makes for an irrelevant tangent in this context.
Makes me think of a 20-something old running a popular YouTube channel interviewing people for business advice, and in one episode, stressing the important message of their interviewee, that was literally "don't trust advice from people who have never actually done the thing you're trying to do".
That's multiple levels of "you're not the traffic, you are the traffic" right there.
> don't trust advice from people who have never actually done the thing you're trying to do
Probably one of the most important heuristics to have in the age of self-help gurus and influencers. 99.999% of them haven't accomplished anything other than profiting off of desperate and gullible people.
Prompt in the second video: "Reduce the font and tagline length"
Now we are using LLM just to adjust font size?
Also third video: "Generate an image for the hero section..."
I can't understand why OpenAI(or Google, or whatever AI companies) thinks it's okay to put an AI generated image for product description. It's literally fake.
> Connect Copilot coding agent with Jira, Azure Boards or Linear to delegate work to Copilot in one click without leaving your project management tool.
- From an empathetic perspective I hope for the sake of the customers of raycast and for its employees that Microsoft is not into any kind of negotiations with Raycast at the moment.
I just want to note that the case you link to was 25 years ago. The number of people working at Microsoft at the time who are still working there today is very small.
After being told to not integrate Internet Explorer into the OS, they changed the name to EDGE and did it anyway? With the added excuse that it now compromises most of the file explorer functionality, too?
The comment was brief, and added detail is welcome, but corporate mission/culture often extends over time even with changes in leadership. Partly because of what was accepted in the past.
> I just want to note that the case you link to was 25 years ago. The number of people working at Microsoft at the time who are still working there today is very small.
That's just a long way of calling Microsoft a bunch of monkeys :-)
I think it is more reasonable to expect that the corporate behavior @ MS would remain in spite of the turn-over, especially if it's valuable / profitable to MS.
See "Tim Cook" at Apple and the preparation (the "we will do things Steve's way" pledge) run-up to him taking over after Steve Jobs's exit from CEO-ship was announced. Apple is still doing many business activities in the same way.
Had I not seen this thread, I would have assumed they consented to it, and I'd never willingly interact with Raycast or it's team in any way. I still have a somewhat negative opinion, so I think it's safe to say there are damages.
As a data point, I consent to be counted as associating raycast with the Microsoft brand and viewing them negatively as a consequence of using pull requests as an advertising canvas.
They should sue to have the ads removed from the texts they were inserted into, which is a vastly more difficult problem than simply paying some dollars.
I hear you, but honestly it’s kind of funny to think a company would send C&D to stop free advertising for them. I’d be surprising to see if any company ever does that, whatever the people think small brands worth they actually worth way less than that.
Raycast is like Alfred, but with MORE AI. Which made me go 'ugh' even before this.
Automatic AI ads on it didn't help. But the team member saying they had no involvement in this brought my opinion of Raycast from 'ewwwwww' back to 'ugh'.
Microslop for a while now seems to be testing exactly how much you can abuse the user before they move somewhere else. Windows is a prime example. Everything is ads, tracking, popups, annoyances, etc.
They have got away with it for a while because a lot of users have largely been stuck, but they are in real trouble now with Apple providing meaningful competition.
Yeah but at least a dozen Microsoft employees went on a seemingly scripted blitz on X about how they’re ready to start listening to feedback and…
* checks notes *
Only have copilot shoehorned into most things instead of everything. And some shit about windows developers which isn’t exactly going to fix the glaring issues with the OS itself.
Do you hate the "Ribbon" UI that got forced into everything in Win8+?
That's what telemetry was used for. Every advanced user turned that off when they gave us the option, and now we have every UI on the computer designed for Grandma.
No need; they could just patch Windows to add the UI to override Win-F26 or whatever their synthetic Fkey was (currently disallowed by their software!).
I almost commented that you can just configure in the settings, but actually the available options don't include Alt. On my Hungarian layout Thinkpad T-14 it replaced the context menu key, not the right-alt, which is luckily the AltGraph key that has a substantial role in Hungarian input method, it cannot be omitted.
It's because of the way companies align their own behavior. "Listening to feedback" is just a good intention but increasing engagement with copilot is a measurable goal. With apologies to George Orwell, imagine an OKR stamping on a human face--forever.
Microsoft can show a screen-wide dick enlarger ad instead of everyone's wallpaper and people will still be using windows for decades. They already know it.
Spent yesterday pruning dependencies in a project. Cut half of them and everything still worked. Makes you wonder how much stuff we pull in without thinking about it. Same thing with AI-generated PRs honestly, one bad suggestion and it ships.
Imagine just having the copilot extension installed will be an excuse at some point for them to steal our code to train their AI models. Not sure if they already do this.
> Copilot may include both automated and manual (human) processing of data. You shouldn’t share any information with Copilot that you don’t want us to review.
so they're reserving the right to process whatever it looks at.
You're sending them your codebase already, as part of the prompt for generating new snippets, debugging, etc. So they have access to it.
They'd be absolute fools not to be using the results of sessions to continue to refine their models, and they already reserved the rights to look at what you send them, so yeah - they're doing it.
That's the TOS for the broader Microsoft Copilot, not for the GitHub one, which has its own TOSes (depending whether your last renewal was before or after March 5) that don't include the "entertainment" wording.
Also for some reason that site hijacks your scrolling and tries to "smooth" it, which just makes it feel more unresponsive as most browsers already have smooth scrolling?
You’re pointing to something entirely different: those are Copilot-created PRs. They can include anything Copilot wants to include. People using the Copilot PR feature know what they’re buying into.
OP is about Copilot doing post-hoc editing of a human-created PR to include an ad, allegedly without knowledge or approval of the creator (well I assume they did give their team member permission to update the PR body, but apparently not for this kind of crap).
It’s like how Disney Plus “ad free” tier shows you ads for Hulu and Disney Perks. They probably redefine “ad” in their terms of service so their own ads are called something else.
I looked into it at one point, as I was disgusted by the unskippable advertisements when paying for an ad-free tier on one of the myriad streaming platforms. Apparently, they distinguish between "advertisements" for a product or service and "promotions" for themselves. I get why that would be a reasonable internal distinction, as the former would require sign-off from the business paying for the advertisement, while the latter would only need internal approval, but it's a pointless distinction after that.
The distinction is likely a claw back to give themselves just that ability to freely advertise to you after telling you it was ad free. Like what’s the difference advertising a subsidiary like Disney parks to me or a new car? Just that they own the former.
Leave the poor fellow alone. It's been butchered enough in the late 90s and early 00s, and has been repurposed for a greater good. I'd argue not all Microsoft creates is bad, it just needs someone else to make it better.
It's definitely an ad, I think the only real question is whether it's just marketing Copilot or whether part of their partnership with other companies is advertising the integration in this way. The links all go to Copilot docs pages on the integrations, so they're not typical tracked link advertising campaigns.
Honestly, it being a "tip" or "ad" is exactly the same.
What I mean is that even if I take that at face value and accept that it's not an ad, and I can just about see from a certain level of corporate brainwashing how one could believe that, it's still completely unacceptable.
Calling it a "tip" is definitely just a semantic trick to make it slightly less easy to frame a negative response and galvanise opinion against the practise. Reminds me a bit of confirmation shaming (which, now I think about it, I haven't seen in a while) where you're made to click a button that says something like "No, I don't want an amazing 15% off my next order by signing up to your email list".
I was playing Mario Party Jamboree this weekend with my kids, and when you use a key to unlock doors (for anyone not familiar, Mario Party is a family friendly virtual board game with lots of minigames that’s been around since the Nintendo 64) that serve as shortcuts in the game board, the key is alive and says “don’t you want to keep being friends? You wouldn’t use me on a door, would you?” Which is a humorous twist on confirmation shaming inside of the game and gives me a bit of enmity for the imaginary key.
Conversely, on Doom Dark Ages they got rid of the traditional difficulty mode of “I’m too young to die” which had a picture of Doom Guy with a bib and a pacifier, I think there’s some new industry guidance that it’s a no no to poke fun at people picking easy difficulties, or even indicating what difficulty the game was “designed to be played on” which Japanese game devs happily ignore.
I know these aren’t actual equivalents since your money isn’t used on the line and it’s purely a game state, buts it’s still an interesting and noteworthy transition.
I this a similar thing? Apple web signin doesn't let you easily choose SMS 2FA; you have to click "I can't get to my devices right now" first before you can send yourself a text message. I always resent them for making me lie, because although my devices ARE nearby (ish), my phone is always, like RIGHT THERE.
I do think it's just an ad. Also it's a bad kind of one because 1) it disguises itself as a tip 2) makes people to think if it's an ad for Raycast or other services, when actually it's just promoting itself.
PRs aren't part of the repository (if you define repository to mean part of `git`'s internal working. It's part of GitHub, which is owned by Microsoft.
Small nit, but PR description bodies might wind up as part of a commit message verbatim, depending on repo settings and the merger's personal behavior. It's an easy outcome, the merger doesn't need to copy and paste or anything, and I think it might be a default or popular setting for squash-merges.
It’s a spot that will easily be replaced with paid ads, for sure. Not sure why it wouldn’t be better to just inject this sort of message into the UI instead of editing the PR text itself. (Except that the team implementing it probably couldn’t get the UI team to agree.)
> Looks like MS thinks it's a "tip" rather than an ad.
No, they don't.
> edit: I think it's an ad too. Everyone would think so, except for MS.
You think a company with a $2.65 trillion market cap and an army of marketing professionals doesn't realize that what they're doing here is an ad, and didn't implement it intentionally as such?
That's not even remotely plausible. In the quantum multiverse which contains all physically realizable possibilities, that isn't one of them.
Well, at least their PM thinks(or argue ) it's a tip[0]. Also it's pretty obvious I was just being sarcastic about MS's behaviors. I don't know why you are so mean but please don't be. Have a nice day.
The correct word would be that the PM claims it’s a tip. Now ask yourself whether a PM who realizes he or his team has made a terrible mistake and is doing damage control in public is likely to make only true claims.
Correcting your mistakes is not mean. If you didn’t mean what you wrote, well hey, that’s a good example of the difference between what you think and what you say. See how that works?
> In the quantum multiverse which contains all physically realizable possibilities, that isn't one of them.
Or
> See how that works?
These are. You can be sarcastic as much as you want to be but I can't?
And again, I really don't understand why are you so mean about this. I read some of your other comments and many of them are unnecessarily mean. Please be nice.
This tip/ad discussion reminds me of the equally idiotic and misleading Facebook post types. Instead of the correctly labeling all ads as, well, ads, Facebook have some ads called "suggested for you", some are completely unlabeled with only a "follow" button to start following, some ads are labeled as "sponsored" etc. I think they are doing this to evade legal limitations they might have otherwise. Last time I used Facebook it showed me 25 ads in a row (I counted), without any of my hundreds of follows with active feeds. Truly insane company.
Their mistake was editing it into the text bodies, rather than making it a separate element of the page. No doubt they were trying to inhibit adblockers but it’s so much worse a problem for them this way, because they’re presenting an ad in the voice and userpic of the account that made the post.
Good point. The anti-bot patches here (via Patchright) are about preventing the browser from being detected as automated — things like CDP leak fixes so Cloudflare doesn't block you mid-session. It's not about bypassing access restrictions.
Our main use case is retail price monitoring — comparing publicly listed product prices across e-commerce sites, which is pretty standard in the industry. But fair point, we should make that clearer in the README.
robots.txt is the most basic access restrictions and it doesn't even read it, while faking itself as human[0]. It is about bypassing access restrictions.
How can people believe that you are respecting bot detection in production when your software's README says it can "Avoid detection with built-in anti-bot patches"?
> This isn’t a generic chatbot. It’s a custom-built voice agent that answers his phone, knows his exact prices, his hours, his policies, and can collect a callback when it doesn’t know something.
> back to writing code by hand
But what they are doing is
> doing the __design work__ myself, by hand, before any code gets written.
So... Claude still is generating the code I guess?
And seriously, I can't understand that they thought their vibe coded project works fine and even bought a domain for the project without ever looking at source code it generated, FOR 7 MONTHS??