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On the contrary, GP's warning saved my time and attention. For that I thank them.

You should persist certs somewhere. Otherwise your availability is heavily tied to LE’s uptime.

Technically, because Let's Encrypt always publishes all requested certificates to the logs (this isn't mandatory, it's just easier for most people so Let's Encrypt always does this) your tool can go look in the logs to get the certificate. You do need to know your private key, nobody else ever knew that so if you don't have that then you're done.

X509 certificates published in CT logs are "pre-certificates". They contains a poison extension so you don't be able to use them with your private key.

The final certificate (without poison and with SCT proof) is usually not published in any CT logs but you can submit it yourself if you wish.


Although the poisoned pre-certificates† are logged as a necessary part of offering the least hassle product which is the business Let's Encrypt are in, they, like most CAs, also log the finished certificate shortly after.

Here's the pre-certificate for this web site's current certificate:

https://crt.sh/?id=23696530376

and here, just a few later in the log, is the finished certificate:

https://crt.sh/?id=23696528656

This is good practice, but it's also just easier, because if anything goes wrong, and sometimes things do go wrong, when the trust store says hey, please provide all certificates you issued with these properties, if you've logged them they are right there published in the logs for everybody to see - no bother, no risk - if you haven't then you need your own storage and better hope there aren't any mistakes. I'm sure LE do have their own copies if they needed them, but it sure is nice to know that's not what you're betting on.

† Poisoned pre-certificates are a "temporary" hack so that the certificate logging system can be demonstrated. If we ever really wanted this of course we'd develop a proper solution instead, right? Right? Every experienced software engineer knows that "temporary" usually means permanent in practice and so nobody was surprised by how this turned out.


All I'm saying is that publishing final certificate is not required for the process, so just assuming it will be there is premature. User may end up putting precert on his https server and find the hard way.

Happy to see LE publish both, but others do not. Here is an example: https://crt.sh/?id=17293798014

Your won't find final certificate from digicert/globalsign in the CT logs.

Unless the owner publish it himself, API is opened for submission I think for everybody.


The comment I made was explicit that this works for Let's Encrypt, you replied that it doesn't, apparently without checking the logs because if you'd glanced at them it's like 1:1 pre-certificates to actual certificates from Let's Encrypt and I explained that you're wrong.

I'm not disputing that there could be a world where you're correct, but, it's not this world, which is why I even made that comment. That doesn't make relying on the logs for this a brilliant idea, it's just an observation that in fact it could work.


Note that we only do best-effort submission of final certs, so it's not actually guaranteed that they end up being logged.

Now you depend on CT log providers uptime, which as far as I can tell is worse than LE.

Google, Cloudflare, Let's Encrypt, DigiCert, GlobalSign and others run logs. Here is the list Chrome checks: https://www.gstatic.com/ct/log_list/v3/log_list.json

While they do not have direct SLAs, they still have to comply with rules enforced by browser vendors, as they will remove you from CT checks and you'll be marked retired/untrusted (you can find some in the above list).

This means a 99% uptime on a 90 day rolling average, a 1 minute update frequency for new entries (24 hours on an older RFC). No split views, strict append-only, sharding by year, etc.

I think OP's original idea would work.


X509 certificates published in CT logs are "pre-certificates". They contains a poison extension so you don't be able to use them with your private key.

The final certificate (without poison and with SCT proof) is usually not published in any CT logs but you can submit it yourself if you wish.

OP idea won't work unless OP will submit final certificate himself to CT logs.


I didn't realize this detail, thank you.

Mostly, if not entirely due to intentionally poor breeding practices. Who betrayed who?


Mostly, if not entirely, due to poor raising.

I've gotten "BEWARE OF DOG!" pitbulls and rottweilers to befriend me simply by speaking kindly to them, and then over a period of days raising that to handsniffs, then petting.

Misanthropic dogs are taught that behavior, which contradicts 10,000+ years of training. They don't enjoy being assholes.

This is not to say dogs aren't naturally barky and suspicious of strangers; that is also part of their millenia of training. Lots of nice people are also suspicious of strangers. But aggressively attacking people is basically psychotic behavior for a social animal that considers humans part of its society.


Watching this classic channel may be safer https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU4IMu04MIlJgB6Aaj07q-5iX...


If he doesn't, he needs to be forthright about it in his speeches and podcasts. "The ISP is disobeying my direct orders."

Until then, he bears responsibility for their actions.


The NYPD all but threatened to kill Bill de Blasio's daughter when he tried to bring them to heel. I'm limiting myself to being furious at the fucking freaks terrorizing my city instead of creating new shit to get mad about. There's plenty as is.


Sure, I don't mean this to arouse anger. I point it out for the Democratic primaries in March. https://ballotpedia.org/Illinois_gubernatorial_and_lieutenan...


I don't think the software hacking side of Wrangler mods is barren. e.g. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/jeep-hacking-..., which IIUC has been commercialized into https://www.zautomotive.com/products/z_tzr_jlm.

I don't know that anyone has broken the head unit firmware though.


For those (i.e. me) who were concerned that the cert wasn't actually revoked, it is.

https://crt.sh/?id=20924740030

    $ curl -s http://r13.c.lencr.org/105.crl | openssl crl -noout -text | grep -A1 899DE8
        Serial Number: 055B8B1F23D5BCF09DD8E9CAF8798F899DE8
            Revocation Date: Sep 10 16:00:16 2025 GMT


2023 Jeep: I was able to remove the cellular modem from the head unit. Disconnecting the antenna was not effective (just reduces the range).

See e.g. https://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=7&pid=462&year=20...


Colorado, at least, provides several resources for minimizing and compensating wolf depredation.

https://cpw.widencollective.com/assets/share/asset/pzqhipzb1... (see Funding)

Cursory search shows that not just Colorado does this.


It's rather shocking for a company to admit to flaunting software licensing in public communications.

But this is not new https://fly.io/blog/wrong-about-gpu/

> At one point, we hex-edited the [NVIDIA] closed-source drivers to trick them into thinking our hypervisor was QEMU.


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